Enjoy the music ladies and gentlemen, but god forbid you ever have to face their music!
Join SIF yahoogroup, get answers..
"
Sunday, December 28, 2008
Wednesday, December 24, 2008
Everyone contributes to the ashanti around us, unless we facilitate change around us
Hi All,
Parental interference(it could be either side or even both sides, owing to the lack of understanding with respect to the actual intensity or manner of the conflict between the couple concerned!) either catalyses impending splits and obnoxious behaviour which follows(after the war is announced!) and even legal terrorism once they come to know that there is 'some' trouble between the couple.
Such 'some' trouble kind of situations existed even in earlier times, but they did not definitely crystalise into 'stymie' situations or even evoked extreme actions for either side, since earlier generations had the skill and diplomacy(or command of a head of the joint/united family, which in turn came from the respect this head earned vide the services and dedication rendered to ones family- respect has that way of manifesting, it can never bought or forced, its self-evoking/eliciting... and this is a oft-forgotten truth by modernists, the so called modern men and women), the other members of a joint family would act as vents, counselors, confidantes, sounding boards or whatever the situation of conflict might warrant, and the couple at conflict themselves had some strong value base which seldom let them disrupt the peace of the family.
This kind of "concern for the family" or 'WE" is slowly becoming non existent and its this factor which pushes the so called 'modern' couple who do not have anytime other than thinking about 'I' and 'My'... the value base too have eroded so much that their shell-like self is so brittle that such persons can only think of self-destructive ways to handle a situation of conflict.
Lack of values coupled with self-centeredness does them in... and they do not usually mend their ways even after hard times like a violent divorce which extends to years of negativity and trauma(resulting in profuse loss of peace, spirit, resources, etc., on one side)... these persons run into disruptive situations after disruptive and eroding situations.. finally they are totally 'spent' on their intrinsic goodness, and turn totally negative and starts acting against whoever comes in contact with them and thence the society at large.
Their negative vibes and examples of wrong doing sets off an unfortunate trend in conflict management, and a snowball effect in a definite perimeter around them, especially on the impressionable youngsters who grow up to believe that these are the only ways to handle conflicts.
Unless we try to address and rectify these undercurrents which finally leads to legal terrorism , we would only be getting at the surface of the 'rust' or 'rot', just painting the rusted surface will not ensure that the 'spread' can be stopped, it will surface from time to time, until we address these problem of moral degradation in a macro scale.
Back to basics is one word to describe the cure, while we do what we are currently doing, the touch-up or fire-fighting jobs(by way of fighting legal terrorists on the same token or on a different, but addressing legal terrorism as a piece-meal problem).
Think about this, may you be able to action some solutions around you, starting NOW.
Spread the message too.... Values, Values, and Values. values of honesty, of mutual respect, of Love, or Patience, of sharing, of caring, of courage, of physical endurance and mental serenity, of planting tress and rearing children, of Vasudeva Kudumbakam......
regards
Gokul
.
.
Report: Parents Contribute to Divorce
Posted by: "gorky_maksim"
Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:44 am (PST)
Parents contribute a lot to 498a female's behaviour and attitude.
Now, a Florida based counsellor has written about it and Deccan
Chronicle has reported it.
http://www.dc-epaper.com/DC/DCB/2008/12/23/ArticleHtmls/23_12_2008_110_004.shtml?Mode=1
Till now, we never highlighted this as "No one will digest that
parents can contribute to Marriage break up." My guess shows that in
90% of cases the mother-in-law and father-in-law make the female file
498a.
NOW, IT is the TIME to ATTACK
------------ --------- --------
Please do Press Conferences and say that in more than 80% cases in
SIF, the adverse and destructive advice by parents has led to breaking
of marriage and 498a.
Let us build momentum on this Thread.
We had done a press conference in Bangalore just yesterday. So, it may
not work if we do another press conference now.
But, activists in other cities can use this opportunity to show the
real side of "Girl's Parents".
Best Regards
Gorky
Parental interference(it could be either side or even both sides, owing to the lack of understanding with respect to the actual intensity or manner of the conflict between the couple concerned!) either catalyses impending splits and obnoxious behaviour which follows(after the war is announced!) and even legal terrorism once they come to know that there is 'some' trouble between the couple.
Such 'some' trouble kind of situations existed even in earlier times, but they did not definitely crystalise into 'stymie' situations or even evoked extreme actions for either side, since earlier generations had the skill and diplomacy(or command of a head of the joint/united family, which in turn came from the respect this head earned vide the services and dedication rendered to ones family- respect has that way of manifesting, it can never bought or forced, its self-evoking/eliciting... and this is a oft-forgotten truth by modernists, the so called modern men and women), the other members of a joint family would act as vents, counselors, confidantes, sounding boards or whatever the situation of conflict might warrant, and the couple at conflict themselves had some strong value base which seldom let them disrupt the peace of the family.
This kind of "concern for the family" or 'WE" is slowly becoming non existent and its this factor which pushes the so called 'modern' couple who do not have anytime other than thinking about 'I' and 'My'... the value base too have eroded so much that their shell-like self is so brittle that such persons can only think of self-destructive ways to handle a situation of conflict.
Lack of values coupled with self-centeredness does them in... and they do not usually mend their ways even after hard times like a violent divorce which extends to years of negativity and trauma(resulting in profuse loss of peace, spirit, resources, etc., on one side)... these persons run into disruptive situations after disruptive and eroding situations.. finally they are totally 'spent' on their intrinsic goodness, and turn totally negative and starts acting against whoever comes in contact with them and thence the society at large.
Their negative vibes and examples of wrong doing sets off an unfortunate trend in conflict management, and a snowball effect in a definite perimeter around them, especially on the impressionable youngsters who grow up to believe that these are the only ways to handle conflicts.
Unless we try to address and rectify these undercurrents which finally leads to legal terrorism , we would only be getting at the surface of the 'rust' or 'rot', just painting the rusted surface will not ensure that the 'spread' can be stopped, it will surface from time to time, until we address these problem of moral degradation in a macro scale.
Back to basics is one word to describe the cure, while we do what we are currently doing, the touch-up or fire-fighting jobs(by way of fighting legal terrorists on the same token or on a different, but addressing legal terrorism as a piece-meal problem).
Think about this, may you be able to action some solutions around you, starting NOW.
Spread the message too.... Values, Values, and Values. values of honesty, of mutual respect, of Love, or Patience, of sharing, of caring, of courage, of physical endurance and mental serenity, of planting tress and rearing children, of Vasudeva Kudumbakam......
regards
Gokul
.
.
Report: Parents Contribute to Divorce
Posted by: "gorky_maksim"
Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:44 am (PST)
Parents contribute a lot to 498a female's behaviour and attitude.
Now, a Florida based counsellor has written about it and Deccan
Chronicle has reported it.
http://www.dc-epaper.com/DC/DCB/2008/12/23/ArticleHtmls/23_12_2008_110_004.shtml?Mode=1
Till now, we never highlighted this as "No one will digest that
parents can contribute to Marriage break up." My guess shows that in
90% of cases the mother-in-law and father-in-law make the female file
498a.
NOW, IT is the TIME to ATTACK
------------ --------- --------
Please do Press Conferences and say that in more than 80% cases in
SIF, the adverse and destructive advice by parents has led to breaking
of marriage and 498a.
Let us build momentum on this Thread.
We had done a press conference in Bangalore just yesterday. So, it may
not work if we do another press conference now.
But, activists in other cities can use this opportunity to show the
real side of "Girl's Parents".
Best Regards
Gorky
Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
26th October, 2nd Anniverssary of DV- Black Day March-Mumbai
Hi All,
The Black March went on better than expected, considering that it was held on the day of Danteras festival. Many of members chose to celebrate danteras and perfrom poojas at home in connection with the same, but my only argument in favour of their attending our events(even if they had to be conducted on the same day as festivals as this) is that "Seva is the best form of prayer". If u do not help others or even help yourselves by strengthening our movement, how can we hope to achieve anything any soon?
The Black March went on better than expected, considering that it was held on the day of Danteras festival. Many of members chose to celebrate danteras and perfrom poojas at home in connection with the same, but my only argument in favour of their attending our events(even if they had to be conducted on the same day as festivals as this) is that "Seva is the best form of prayer". If u do not help others or even help yourselves by strengthening our movement, how can we hope to achieve anything any soon?
We had 30 plus members participating displaying the banners to the oncoming traffic , distributing pamphlets and engaging the media, etc. The highlight for media was the video clips of one of our members , which showed the wife beating him for more than 1 hour etc.
Let me keep a proposal to all of you. November 19th we are going to conduct a massive Bike AND Car Rally from Fort area(from Fountain area if we get premission, or any other visible area, Family court Bandra). The detailed program will be designed and informed to all of you within this week.
Please mark this date(NOVEMBER 19TH) on your calenders right away and apply for necessary leaves or make suitable arrangements(no exuces please), since we need atleast 50 bikes and 10 cars to make an impact in the dense mumbai traffic. We are already on the job of the necessary permissions from the Commissioner of Police and family court etc. Tentatively this rally is going to commence in the afternoon session by around 2.30pm when the traffic thins and when we have a chance to get permission for the VIP roads(which are not allowed for such rallies when traffic in dense).
I need a head count by way of your replies, please do not necesitate a reminder in this regard, reply RIGHT NOW.
regards
Gokul
PS: The group has taken a firm decision that the key members and other members who counsels others who agree with this decision, will not entertain/councel members who do not give strength to group activities. This is not to put pressure on you, but with intention to activate sleeping members who think that "someone else will do it for them" this attitude has to be thrown out and NOW
Let me keep a proposal to all of you. November 19th we are going to conduct a massive Bike AND Car Rally from Fort area(from Fountain area if we get premission, or any other visible area, Family court Bandra). The detailed program will be designed and informed to all of you within this week.
Please mark this date(NOVEMBER 19TH) on your calenders right away and apply for necessary leaves or make suitable arrangements(no exuces please), since we need atleast 50 bikes and 10 cars to make an impact in the dense mumbai traffic. We are already on the job of the necessary permissions from the Commissioner of Police and family court etc. Tentatively this rally is going to commence in the afternoon session by around 2.30pm when the traffic thins and when we have a chance to get permission for the VIP roads(which are not allowed for such rallies when traffic in dense).
I need a head count by way of your replies, please do not necesitate a reminder in this regard, reply RIGHT NOW.
regards
Gokul
PS: The group has taken a firm decision that the key members and other members who counsels others who agree with this decision, will not entertain/councel members who do not give strength to group activities. This is not to put pressure on you, but with intention to activate sleeping members who think that "someone else will do it for them" this attitude has to be thrown out and NOW
PPS: http://at498a.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-weekly-meeting-in-western-suburbs.html (Mumbai SIFian events till December 2008)
Sunday, October 26, 2008
First Contact Advice
This is my routine first reply for all new members who contact me with queries, the readers of this blog also could benefit by this
*************
For Free Advise, click here or call our help-lines worldwide
Warm Regards,
Gokul, http://gokul.go.to, 9633409355(Kerala)
*************
First and foremost, please attend the weekly counseling meetings at Mulund(or Borivli), if you are around Mumbai. We conduct these meetings on every Sunday, 4 to 7pm at Chintaman Deshmukh Garden, Mahatma Phule Road, Mulund(east), very near local train station. Please call 9322156141(PIFF Helpline)/ 9833066726 (Suhail) to confirm or if in doubt. For confirming the Borivli based meeting details call Jinesh on 9820241589/9769770498(IFF Helpline) .
Please attend the weekly meetings for counseling and support near you, find the nearest venue from the helplines of All India Men's Welfare Association (AIMWA)/Mynation/SIF (http://aimwa.in/contact, http://mynation.net/contact-us and http://www.saveindianfamily.in) and attend weekly meetings, which will help you solve your issues. It is very important to attend meetings/talk to fellow victims-turned-victors, etc., since it will give peace of mind more than anything in the first meeting itself. Everyone comes to meetings feeling very unlucky/cursed since they think they are the only ones having these troubles, but when u meet others in the same boat, not only u will resolve the "why me" question in your own minds, but also get a definite and positive direction on which you can work and solve your problems
There is so much collective knowledge to be tapped, in terms of working of courts, how cases proceed, what to keep in mind when dealing with advocates, and hundreds of other aspects of how to stay peaceful and still solve your problems - these inputs u wont get on any site or book, that’s a guarantee- meetings transform the people who have the will to transform.
I would recommend that you join SIF(saveindianfamily) yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saveindianfamily , where you can post your specific queries and can expect to get replies from the 4000 odd members in this group, who are highly passionate about fighting this kind of misuse of law and are knowledgeable than even an average advocate. The message archives of SIF yahoo group also will be helpful in getting more insight to any kind of legal situation that you may be in(you can search with Keywords related to your case).
All the major judgements/citations that you may need is here: http://mynation.net/docs and http://www.498a.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=1592eb0eed276fe804822de5daf4db2a . Refer http://ipc498a.wordpress.com/2007/07/01/the-498a-survival-kit/ to read about how you can fight misuse of 498a.
Read DV Survivor Guide or https://docs.google.com/View?id=djh8gv9_0f8k87kdr and http://nyayayodha.blogspot.com/search/label/PWDVA%28DV%20Act%29 (for Domestic Violence Act cases).
Read DV Survivor Guide or https://docs.google.com/View?id=djh8gv9_0f8k87kdr and http://nyayayodha.blogspot.com/search/label/PWDVA%28DV%20Act%29 (for Domestic Violence Act cases).
See this for some links and resources which will help you to research solutions yourselves. Also call the helpline numbers near to you( given below) and meet the local group at their weekly meetings.
In the meanwhile go through some blog posts I had written about counter cases and using the Joginder Kumar Vs State of UP judgement for getting a fair investigation done in your case. See: http://at498a.blogspot.com/2008/05/impending-498a-send-this.html , http://bok498a.blogspot.com/2008/07/post-498a-getting-fair-investigation.html , http://bok498a.blogspot.com/2008/07/counter-cases-during-and-after-case.html and http://bok498a.blogspot.com/2008/06/first-strikers-advantage-live-saving.htmlWith the recent Cr.PC amendment(notified/enforced in November 2010) arrests in 498a is going to be a lesser threat since as per this amendment a warrant from the court is required to arrest any accused(of crimes with less than 7 years of imprisonment). A notice of appearance would be issued by the police to the accused who should then co-operate with the investigation, so no more arbitrary arrests by police. See an RTI reply Ministry of Home Affairs confirming that this Cr.PC amendment has been notified and is effective from 1st November, 2010
Read code of criminal procedure amendment bill, 2010 for better clarity.
Please do your bit by sending the above RTI to the chief of police(DGP) of your state and ask for compliance, by all police stations in the state, with respect to this Cr.PC(section 41A) amendment.
For Free Advise, click here or call our help-lines worldwide
Help-Line Numbers.
Mumbai: 9322156141, 8652843011, 9820241589 Nagpur: 9890974788
Nasik: 9371988132, 9822011250, 9890656219 Pune: 9923056460, 9922379103, 9850883751
Delhi: 9911119113, 9891369616, 9811624141 Calcutta: 9231835462, 9830151555, 9830927619
Kanpur: 9839038424, 9335014984,9935239764 Bangalore: 80-65334135, 9845986250
Jaipur 9352562456 Kerala 9895557765, 9995433034, 9995308518 Gujarat 9825365816, 9898989884 U.S.A +650-430-9544, +612-812-4340, +917- 512-5362 Kuwait +965-3869295
More helplines at: http://www.saveindianfamily.org/contact-us/activists.html, http://mynation.net/contact-us and http://www.savefamily.org/index.php?Itemid=65&option=com_content
In return we just need you to raise your voice in whatever way possible so that we can together see the end of this legal terrorism in families, families which are the real strength of India(and may be that’s why families are being systematically targeted and broken down by vested interests and neo-imperialists!)Warm Regards,
Gokul, http://gokul.go.to, 9633409355(Kerala)
Twitter: http://twitter.com/gokulpr, FB: https://www.facebook.com/
Editor - www.siftimes.com , www.protectindianfamily.org, www.mensrights.in
Member - All India Men's Welfare Association(www.aimwa.in),
National Litigant Bench(www.litigantbench.org)
Counseling helpline for Men in distress - "Man's Voice": http://bit.ly/mansvoice
*************************
I blog at:
http://at498a.blogspot.com
http://bok498a.blogspot.com
http://siftimes.blogspot.com
http://cruiserdeep.blogspot.
______________________________
Cowardice asks...."Is it safe?", Expedience asks "Is it politic?", Vanity asks...."Is it popular?"... There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, politic, nor popular, but one must take it because it is right: Martin Luther King, Jr.
*********
Like this movie page to spread awareness, its now or never:
Editor - www.siftimes.com , www.protectindianfamily.org, www.mensrights.in
Member - All India Men's Welfare Association(www.aimwa.in),
National Litigant Bench(www.litigantbench.org)
Counseling helpline for Men in distress - "Man's Voice": http://bit.ly/mansvoice
*************************
I blog at:
http://at498a.blogspot.com
http://bok498a.blogspot.com
http://siftimes.blogspot.com
http://cruiserdeep.blogspot.
______________________________
Cowardice asks...."Is it safe?", Expedience asks "Is it politic?", Vanity asks...."Is it popular?"... There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, politic, nor popular, but one must take it because it is right: Martin Luther King, Jr.
*********
Like this movie page to spread awareness, its now or never:
https://www.facebook.com/
**********
**********
Monday, October 06, 2008
First weekly meeting in western-suburbs of Mumbai- resolutions and action points, event calender ahead
I am glad(I am actually holding back my sheer elation) to announce the newly formed email distribution list of mumbai, now onwards u can reach the core-group of Mumbai(PIF, NGO) by mailing to a single maild, ie. mumbai (at) protectindianfamily (dot) org
This is the start of a quantum jump in Mumbai's activity levels. Yesterday in the first weekly meeting of the western line(Venue: Goregaon)We were discussing Mumbai's evolution in SIF history, although we were among the first movers to start SIF group activities(back in 2005 Sept 11th we had our first group meeting at Powai, blogged at http://indianhusbands.blogspot.com/2005/09/mumbai-meeting-no1.html ), mumbai was the first among the SIF brigades to conduct a seminar: http://at498a.blogspot.com/2006/08/legal-awareness-seminar-coping-with_18.html ), the first among innovative awareness programs : http://at498a.blogspot.com/2008/03/sif-presentation-at-15th-annual.html and http://at498a.blogspot.com/2007/09/peace-ride-on-bikes-around-bombay30th.html , etc. etc.
Even with these commendable firsts, the fact remained that these pockets of excellence were only possible due to a very few dedicated members, and given that their whole-hearted efforts coming out of the firm conviction that piece-meal solutions will not solve the critical problems of the opulation at large, nor will solving personal cases bring immunity to oneself in future(misuse of family laws are, by nature, multi-directional, counter-intuitive and even beyond regular estimation or risk-assesments). But like a chinese bamboo shoot we had been systematically growing our roots in mumbai without much fuss or notice by even close associates, now this chinese bamboo is ready to achieve phenomenal growth which is well within the capabilities of the well motivated group we have now in Mumbai(bamboos grow their roots first, and then after couple of years, grows leaps and bounds after it has spread its roots enough to ensure food-security and sustainability in growth and existence!).
With these thoughts I would like to invite your attention to watch Mumbai group(Protect Indian Family, NGO- For family harmony, against legal terrorism) and to prepare yourselves to get ready to be inspired.
We pledge that we will not betray ur trust, we will only exceed expectations and targets we set for ourselves, we will not engage in wasteful exercises/egoistic acts, we shall strive to excel at each endevour we plan, we shall hold truth and justice above our own lives, we shall prevail with truth and justice, we shall do everything which counts to shake-up the system and relieve all of us from the systemic & chronic rot, with a view to present a better tomorrow to our own children and all other inhabitants of this world - "Loka samastha sukhino bhavanthu".
See the brief details about the first weekly meetings in western line(Mumbai) and the discussions which lead to formulation of events until December 2008, planned to be "positively" executed in Mumbai: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saveindianfamily/message/105991
Shine on us father, that we reflect your shine unto others..... Avigna Masthu
________________________________________________________
Brief details about the first weekly meetings in western line(Mumbai) and the discussions which lead to formulation of events until December 2008, planned to be "positively" executed in Mumbai:
Today we had the first meeting(weekly') in Goregaon(western line) and we have decided upon innvoative events, as well as the tested options like Dharna,Seminars, pls see the events as below
1) October 26th, 2008, 2nd Anniverssary of DV Act(Domestic Violence act)Black march: to mark this "Black Day for Indian families"
2) November 19th- Men's day, Bike/Car rally: 40 bikes and cars with PIF, Mumbai members and out station members
Optional-> Black(prominently) rangoli competitions , 2) Pamphlet distribution booths in V.T & Churchgate + family court(other courts worth which are worth it), other offices of state government,and 3) Candle march
3) 13th December - Dharna and memorandum/stats compiled as a folders andpresent to Home ministry. As a run-up to these events we can start distributing pamphlets as paper inserts, get news paper articles, etc, so that we can get maximum mileage out of every expense we incur.
PS: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saveindianfamily/message/101689 (Changes in counselling services from PIF)
This is the start of a quantum jump in Mumbai's activity levels. Yesterday in the first weekly meeting of the western line(Venue: Goregaon)We were discussing Mumbai's evolution in SIF history, although we were among the first movers to start SIF group activities(back in 2005 Sept 11th we had our first group meeting at Powai, blogged at http://indianhusbands.blogspot.com/2005/09/mumbai-meeting-no1.html ), mumbai was the first among the SIF brigades to conduct a seminar: http://at498a.blogspot.com/2006/08/legal-awareness-seminar-coping-with_18.html ), the first among innovative awareness programs : http://at498a.blogspot.com/2008/03/sif-presentation-at-15th-annual.html and http://at498a.blogspot.com/2007/09/peace-ride-on-bikes-around-bombay30th.html , etc. etc.
Even with these commendable firsts, the fact remained that these pockets of excellence were only possible due to a very few dedicated members, and given that their whole-hearted efforts coming out of the firm conviction that piece-meal solutions will not solve the critical problems of the opulation at large, nor will solving personal cases bring immunity to oneself in future(misuse of family laws are, by nature, multi-directional, counter-intuitive and even beyond regular estimation or risk-assesments). But like a chinese bamboo shoot we had been systematically growing our roots in mumbai without much fuss or notice by even close associates, now this chinese bamboo is ready to achieve phenomenal growth which is well within the capabilities of the well motivated group we have now in Mumbai(bamboos grow their roots first, and then after couple of years, grows leaps and bounds after it has spread its roots enough to ensure food-security and sustainability in growth and existence!).
With these thoughts I would like to invite your attention to watch Mumbai group(Protect Indian Family, NGO- For family harmony, against legal terrorism) and to prepare yourselves to get ready to be inspired.
We pledge that we will not betray ur trust, we will only exceed expectations and targets we set for ourselves, we will not engage in wasteful exercises/egoistic acts, we shall strive to excel at each endevour we plan, we shall hold truth and justice above our own lives, we shall prevail with truth and justice, we shall do everything which counts to shake-up the system and relieve all of us from the systemic & chronic rot, with a view to present a better tomorrow to our own children and all other inhabitants of this world - "Loka samastha sukhino bhavanthu".
See the brief details about the first weekly meetings in western line(Mumbai) and the discussions which lead to formulation of events until December 2008, planned to be "positively" executed in Mumbai: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saveindianfamily/message/105991
Shine on us father, that we reflect your shine unto others..... Avigna Masthu
________________________________________________________
Brief details about the first weekly meetings in western line(Mumbai) and the discussions which lead to formulation of events until December 2008, planned to be "positively" executed in Mumbai:
Today we had the first meeting(weekly') in Goregaon(western line) and we have decided upon innvoative events, as well as the tested options like Dharna,Seminars, pls see the events as below
1) October 26th, 2008, 2nd Anniverssary of DV Act(Domestic Violence act)Black march: to mark this "Black Day for Indian families"
2) November 19th- Men's day, Bike/Car rally: 40 bikes and cars with PIF, Mumbai members and out station members
Optional-> Black(prominently) rangoli competitions , 2) Pamphlet distribution booths in V.T & Churchgate + family court(other courts worth which are worth it), other offices of state government,and 3) Candle march
3) 13th December - Dharna and memorandum/stats compiled as a folders andpresent to Home ministry. As a run-up to these events we can start distributing pamphlets as paper inserts, get news paper articles, etc, so that we can get maximum mileage out of every expense we incur.
PS: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saveindianfamily/message/101689 (Changes in counselling services from PIF)
Tuesday, September 16, 2008
A Father gets Custody of his Child
Original post at http://tajindia-ak13.blogspot.com/2008/09/satya-yuddhh.html
SATYA YUDDHH
My name is Ajay. I am based in Gwalior (Madhya Pradesh).I am a member of SIF family. Two years ago my wife left home in criminal conspiracy with her parents, and lodged false police complaint against me, my parents, sister and Brother-in-law at Mahila police Station.
In counselling at Police station nothing happened except that it was clearly established that she had lodged false complaint.Thereafter, she filed a number of cases against me including maintainance and custody of my two children. My children (daughter 11 years and son 5 years) appeared in court and clearly told Hon'ble Judge that they are living with their father and in future too would live with their father. The court granted interim custody in my favour.She filed appeal against family court interim order before Gwalior bench of M P High Court where after final hearing we are waiting for the judgement.
I will intimate as soon as it is delivered.The reason I am writing this blog is I have seen that most of the cases of D.V. are false, where men are being blackmailed by wives and theirparents. In my case too, my wife's brother is mentally upset and needs constant looking after and after her parents there is no one to take his care. To solve this problem my in wife presurrised me to live with her parents. When I refused she did the dirty work. There is one moretwist in the story, my wife also is a patient of epilepsy and vertigo. I have filed her medical record before the court. Plus she has studied only upto 12th standard. I am the only son of my parents who are both about 70 years old. In this age too when most people take to bed, they are looking after both my children.
To help my brothers I will search, load and provide links to judgements which will help us in getting justice. The readers too are requested to link their blogs and also submit links of the judgements delivered in our favour.
SATYA YUDDHH
My name is Ajay. I am based in Gwalior (Madhya Pradesh).I am a member of SIF family. Two years ago my wife left home in criminal conspiracy with her parents, and lodged false police complaint against me, my parents, sister and Brother-in-law at Mahila police Station.
In counselling at Police station nothing happened except that it was clearly established that she had lodged false complaint.Thereafter, she filed a number of cases against me including maintainance and custody of my two children. My children (daughter 11 years and son 5 years) appeared in court and clearly told Hon'ble Judge that they are living with their father and in future too would live with their father. The court granted interim custody in my favour.She filed appeal against family court interim order before Gwalior bench of M P High Court where after final hearing we are waiting for the judgement.
I will intimate as soon as it is delivered.The reason I am writing this blog is I have seen that most of the cases of D.V. are false, where men are being blackmailed by wives and theirparents. In my case too, my wife's brother is mentally upset and needs constant looking after and after her parents there is no one to take his care. To solve this problem my in wife presurrised me to live with her parents. When I refused she did the dirty work. There is one moretwist in the story, my wife also is a patient of epilepsy and vertigo. I have filed her medical record before the court. Plus she has studied only upto 12th standard. I am the only son of my parents who are both about 70 years old. In this age too when most people take to bed, they are looking after both my children.
To help my brothers I will search, load and provide links to judgements which will help us in getting justice. The readers too are requested to link their blogs and also submit links of the judgements delivered in our favour.
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
Extortion money.... Priceless!!!
Forward this link, if you like it :)
This is the new truth in India, extortion money ............ priceless!!!
Monday, August 11, 2008
Winning through Opinion-Formation: Techniques&Strategies
Hi Guys,
New match Venue, team SIF
please get your boots and jersies over here. and lets go get them: http://forum.indya.com/showthread.php?p=1125268#post1125268
See the link above, all
activists who wants educate the public are requested to that match venue asap,
start commenting, this venue is a friendly venue, make it our home venue by
commenting and education the general public who visit this page(this is the page
for feedback to the Tamil Tv program "Ippaddikku Rose" translated
video presentation will be ready by tomorrow, at youtube.
About the presentation/argumenting
tones and persona of our activists: We need to play the "Good Cop
& Bad Cop" routine in any public debate to achieve maximum
information absorption!. The bad cop will ridicule, use dark sarcasm, humour,
down right censure, etc., while the Good Cop(like Rajesh projected his
arguments) tells his mind with a cool, compassionate tone. The good cop will not
be able to cut the other parties arguments since his projected persona will not
allow being rude, but that’s where the bad cop comes in!, he can be rude,
point blank and on the face with his arguments and criticism. The good cops role
is to provide a shoulder for the tired opposition to rest their heads!(fighting
with the bad cop!) and while the opposition takes a breather the good cop
manipulates the oppositions’ opinions in his own way and set stage for the
opponent to finally yield!
Haven’t you guys met
these characters in real life?: like one traffic police acting tough and
being abusive, and then comes the good cop lovingly listening to ur view, and
slowly preparing you to part with your bribe money!(the yield in this example),
and the final push comes when the bad cop pounces from behind and rolls his
eyes- you part with a crisp 100 rupee(or even 500 if the couple performs their
routine well!). Its the same thing what we can emulate, like the generations
successfully have!.
This is the way police in
advanced countries break up a tough criminal too, without force, without even
touching the criminal/terrorist- this is the model which is ever green. So we
just have to assume the part we are comfi with. Swarup will always, better, be
the bad cop(since the other part doesn't suit him much), Virag is also naturally
inclined that way. For me any role which is vacant is ok(like a joker of
cards!).
If we understand this
analogy well, theres no chance in hell that we don't win debates, so internalise
this, consciously generate rage(but let not control you, you control it),
posture yourselves according to the strengths and weakness of the opposition -
go for the Jugular all the time, we have no time to waste!, too many opponents
to obliterate!.
What Rajesh is thinking is
already done, all the deans and colleagues of Huma have received what Virag and
me wrote in Huma's criticism(I hope she hasn't applied for long leave or even
resigned!, yet) . Here are the emails if you guys wanna further give them your
piece of mind(ensure that Huma is on the Cc of BCc(like what I did, for effect!)
(SDSU dean/faculty emails: "Violence Against Women Editor" <claire.renzetti@notes.udayton.edu.>,
speciale@mail.sdsu.edu, webcontent@sciences.sdsu.edu, dean@sciences.sdsu.edu,
nikbakht@mail.sdsu.edu, ilara@mail.sdsu.edu, eestrada@mail.sdsu.edu
, google for more!
Make a mental note, show
rage, show compassion, show derision, show pity, show ridicule, but don't
consumed by all that, keep the focus on our Goals - Opinion Formation .... Mass
Opinion formation.... each and every word coming out of you should be designed
to achieve maximum bang per buck - thats what this game is about.
regards
Gokul
Rajesh Motwani <motwani2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Bro,
u r techning her ur way, she wanted some material for her study so gave it to
her in her own sweet way
but goal is same...
about her knowledge for 498a and going ahead and publishing....
atleast she will not write about DV/125/24 etc like she did for 498a (which
does not need to have IPC suffixed ... good one bro) .... and this will make
her think 10 times, and that will be the starting force of our resistance (our
education)...
and if we have her boss ka email ID or her hierarchy or related and concerned
parties if there is any communciation channel, lest sure, they will get the
knowledge .... tubto unko samajna hee padegaa
yahaan subash chandra bose bhi milenge, bhagat singh bhi milenge and gandhiji
bhi milenge
If this happens, that will be begin the fruits of our efforts which are sown
today
:)
appreciating ur deligence and persistence of laat'ufying to suuch and alike
gr8 show !
Regards,
Rajesh
--- On Sun, 8/10/08, Virag
wrote:
> From: Virag
> Subject: Re: Are you really aware?
> To: motwani2002@yahoo.com
> Cc: saveindianfamily@yahoogroups.com, gokul_p_r@yahoo.com
> Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 7:14 PM
> I know Rajesh,
>
> Initially she thought I am alone and just replied
> blatantly. But she was
> lest aware of, kis phatey mein haath daal rahi hain :)
>
> As regards to education is concerned, giving due respect to
> the efforless
> tasks SIFFIANS have taken to create awareness about this
> misuse, in today's
> world if someone talks of 'ignorance about the
> misuse", that person be
> better ridiculed.
>
> And this holds true for 498a victims as well. For Huma, she
> has apparently
> conducted a research on 498a and published a paper, do you
> really think she
> is so naive as to be ignorant of misuse? Not at all.
>
> She is very well aware that the law is being misused (how
> deep the knowledge
> she has is another contentious issue) but if she has the
> knowledge it has
> defnitely come from SIFFIAN sites and still if she
> publishes this bogus
> paper, simply means she cares a damn about men or its
> misuse and probably
> took us lightly thinking we will not object but when she
> got one tight slap
> from me, her ego was rattled as apparent from her mail.
>
> We are not here to educate the feminists, pig headed people
> do not learn.
> They deserve only one thing and that is laat.
>
> But appreciate your efforts in educating her.
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Rajesh Motwani
>
wrote:
>
> >
> > Virag,
> >
> > I know We are just educating her !.... is only
> intention.
> >
> > so chill...and reply what u think fit for education
> >
> > this is right mode of education what do u think?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rajesh M
> >
> > --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Virag
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Virag
> > > Subject: Re: Are you really aware?
> > > To: motwani2002@yahoo.com
> > > Cc: ghosh@mail.sdsu.edu,
> claire.renzetti@notes.udayton.edu,
> > saveindianfamily@yahoogroups.com, gokul_p_r@yahoo.com,
> > "MyNationFoundation"
>
,
> > "Dowry_Law_Misuse"
>
> > > Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 5:19 PM
> > > Agree, but from no standpoint of sensical
> analysis, does
> > > respecting women
> > > amount to insult of men.
> > >
> > > When the misuse of IPC 498a has devastated so
> many families
> > > and every year
> > > 56, 000 married men are committing suicide to
> avoid it,
> > > terming it as a soft
> > > law is direct insult to those men who have
> suffered for no
> > > fault of theirs
> > > except getting married to a bad wife.
> > >
> > > Respect should not come out of gender, it should
> come out
> > > on its own. One
> > > should command and not demand respect.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Rajesh Motwani
> > >
wrote:
> > >
> > > > I truly understand your feelings
> Virag...bro, i am
> > > seriously at my core of
> > > > heart respect wome, as i have sister, my
> mother is a
> > > women too ....
> > > >
> > > > but never knew the other aspect of life ...
> > > >
> > > > And also i didnt knew as Huma and other are
> thinking,
> > > I have felt the pain,
> > > > no one will understand, if i do not try to
> tell them,
> > > they will also be in
> > > > the state that i was in ...
> > > >
> > > > Hence i think Huma and others are not
> adamant, they
> > > are professors and
> > > > carry more social responsibility, hence i
> thought i
> > > should tell them there
> > > > is another aspect which is dark, and
> dangerous....
> > > >
> > > > hence i thought if i can help her study to
> have
> > > practical and real, it is
> > > > not imperative if a person is stranger he
> cannot add
> > > to her studes, i want
> > > > her to rpesent the current situation,
> attimes we live
> > > in 1942....as i was
> > > > till i got the real aspect, for me it is
> clear, but
> > > since does not know this
> > > > pit, its became imperative for me to have
> this pie to
> > > her....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > its altogether a different aspect if she has
> another
> > > propaganda or
> > > > otherwise and she cannot stand the
> truth.....but its
> > > atleast important that
> > > > she will know and if her brother or someone
> whom she
> > > has affection for will
> > > > make that person aware and cautious .... if
> that
> > > happens that will be my
> > > > greet and wish fullfilled from my heart. as
> i will not
> > > like even my enemy to
> > > > get into this...she is stranger to me.....
> > > >
> > > > but its my cautious thinking that i want her
> to
> > > know....if she takes into
> > > > consideration good, otherwise who i am for
> her....NO
> > > ONE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Virag
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Virag
> > > > > Subject: Re: Are you really aware?
> > > > > To: motwani2002@yahoo.com
> > > > > Cc: ghosh@mail.sdsu.edu,
> > > claire.renzetti@notes.udayton.edu,
> > > > saveindianfamily@yahoogroups.com,
> gokul_p_r@yahoo.com,
> > > > "MyNationFoundation"
> > >
,
> > > > "Dowry_Law_Misuse"
> > >
> > > > > Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 4:43 PM
> > > > > Well Rajesh,
> > > > >
> > > > > Although extensively explained by you,
> but her
> > > first reply
> > > > > to me itself
> > > > > shows how closed minded she is. When
> one can
> > > consider an
> > > > > email of
> > > > > constructive criticism as harassment,
> you can see
> > > the
> > > > > mental level of that
> > > > > person.
> > > > >
> > > > > And moreover, typing 498A in google
> gives you so
> > > many links
> > > > > of misuse. You
> > > > > do not even need to append IPC to it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Did she ever do it? No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has she actually studied the law before
> making a
> > > > > horrendously untruthful
> > > > > statement, that IPC 498A is a soft law?
> No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does she even know how many cases of
> false 498A,
> > > based on
> > > > > completely
> > > > > imaginary and cock and bull stories are
> filed
> > > just to end
> > > > > Marriages and
> > > > > encash them as well and these are the
> outblown
> > > statistics
> > > > > used radical
> > > > > feminist agencies like NCW and WCD
> ministry to
> > > promote and
> > > > > justify such
> > > > > laws? No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does she know, in 98 % of cases the
> girls who are
> > > highly
> > > > > educated, and
> > > > > capable of living a lavish lifestyle on
> their
> > > own, first
> > > > > file a 498a case
> > > > > and then maintenance on the basis of
> that
> > > harassment? No.
> > > > >
> > > > > What does she know of the intricacies
> of this
> > > nexus between
> > > > > bad wives,
> > > > > lawyers, police, judges and women NGOs
> to loot
> > > and
> > > > > terrorize innocent
> > > > > husbands and their families under the
> barb of
> > > 498A, to make
> > > > > a statement that
> > > > > 498A is a soft law and demands stricter
> > > implementation and
> > > > > at the same
> > > > > denouncing Indian men and insulting
> them in
> > > public?
> > > > > Nothing, she knows
> > > > > nothing and claims to be a professor.
> > > > >
> > > > > And on top of that, she says,
> "just because
> > > my email
> > > > > id is public, does not
> > > > > mean any tom dick or Harry can harass
> me by
> > > sending
> > > > > emails"?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is height of typical feministic
> behavior,
> > > the moment
> > > > > you try to get
> > > > > into reason with them they start crying
> > > harassment.
> > > > >
> > > > > And she calls my sending an email to
> her as a
> > > typical
> > > > > "Patriarchial behavior
> > > > > :)"
> > > > >
> > > > > When people are sitting at a position
> that
> > > matters, they
> > > > > ought to have this
> > > > > basic common sense that their words too
> matter
> > > and they
> > > > > should not befool
> > > > > the general diaspora with their own
> whims and
> > > fancies and
> > > > > actions gratifying
> > > > > personal ego and in tune with personal
> vendetta.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Rajesh
> Motwani
> > > > >
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Huma, and others,
> > > > > > Its good that you are making a
> history by
> > > publishing
> > > > > you study, let me give
> > > > > > few statistics
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some Interesting Stats On Arrests
> Of Women
> > > > > > In 1930, the British govt arrested
> 17,000
> > > women for
> > > > > their involvement in
> > > > > > the Dandi Yatra (Salt March).
> During 1937 to
> > > 1947 (10
> > > > > Years), they arrested
> > > > > > 5,000 women involved in the
> freedom
> > > struggle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From 2004 to 2006, the govt of
> India
> > > arrested 90,000
> > > > > women of all ages
> > > > > > under 498A. On the average, 27,000
> women per
> > > year are
> > > > > being arrested under
> > > > > > this flawed law. These are stats
> from the
> > > NCRB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neither these stats are self made
> nor
> > > infliction of
> > > > > thought.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a brief; Even i believed women are
> > > sufferers, when i
> > > > > came to understand
> > > > > > this disgrace, i realized the
> difference
> > > between milk
> > > > > and milk-with-water;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Today women in India on 498a have
> forwarded
> > > the
> > > > > attribution, and imputation
> > > > > > have followed
> > > > > >
> > > > > > U may not be knowing, a career
> oriented
> > > women marries
> > > > > to a engineer because
> > > > > > of simplicity in nature, and same
> simplicity
> > > is not
> > > > > enjoyed by women, and
> > > > > > then due reasons files 498a on
> family and
> > > relatives
> > > > > who never saw her, and
> > > > > > case is made and court takes
> > > cognizance...then women
> > > > > starts staying
> > > > > > with guardians when husband dont
> succumb
> > > files
> > > > > Maintenance case that she is
> > > > > > living on the mery of
> guardians...(a career
> > > oriented
> > > > > women, who got married
> > > > > > saying she has this qualification,
> that
> > > qualification,
> > > > > is in a lead position
> > > > > > and has helped so many to start
> their
> > > career's etc
> > > > > etc....file ne more case
> > > > > > which could be around 1800 Miles
> from home
> > > and the
> > > > > husband gets in to this
> > > > > > menace again...,and has to prove
> that she
> > > has
> > > > > employment etc etc...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wifes have filed cases on pregnant
> women who
> > > never
> > > > > stayed with husband or
> > > > > > came to meet
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wifes have filed cases on a kid of
> 4 years,
> > > stating he
> > > > > was party to
> > > > > > harrasment/....4 years kid ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wife files cases on married ,
> unmarried
> > > sisters of
> > > > > husband .... people
> > > > > > living distant, there are cases
> where more
> > > than 17
> > > > > people are roped and case
> > > > > > is proved false
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > u wont believe., there are people
> who are
> > > fighting
> > > > > cases in different
> > > > > > cities, some have 7 cases in 5
> cities, some
> > > have 10
> > > > > cases in 8 cities, some
> > > > > > have 3 cases in 2 cities...) and
> the menace
> > > > > continues....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > one short enphasis, wife filed
> 498a on
> > > entire family,
> > > > > wife after 1 eyar
> > > > > > files maintenance case in distant
> city and
> > > states she
> > > > > has no living and need
> > > > > > survival allowances .. ....and
> when hearing
> > > comes the
> > > > > income tax returns are
> > > > > > disclosed, and it is argued that
> the court
> > > has no
> > > > > jurisdiction(that means
> > > > > > the place is incorrect) as she
> doesnt stay
> > > there which
> > > > > was reality
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then wife display passport and
> visa saying
> > > she stays
> > > > > there and she is
> > > > > > continuing
> > > > > > to stay and court has right to
> decide this
> > > matter in
> > > > > this court ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > when passport is looked upon, it
> is observed
> > > the wife
> > > > > had flied to other
> > > > > > country .... if she has flied for
> tourism
> > > how can she
> > > > > say that she cannot
> > > > > > survive and need survival
> allowance or
> > > maintenance....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there are matters wife lived with
> husband
> > > for 6 weeks
> > > > > and 3 weeks in
> > > > > > honeymoon to an exotic place and
> then due
> > > some
> > > > > discord, after 6 weeks the
> > > > > > husband lives in the ambit of
> 498a,
> > > maintenance case,
> > > > > divorce case and the
> > > > > > husband has to run to save his
> family, his
> > > professon,
> > > > > his life is
> > > > > > destroyed,, his social status ,
> economic
> > > status, every
> > > > > status is hit ....
> > > > > > woh cared for her and didnt even
> ask for
> > > penny, ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there is so much to have a real
> study .... u
> > > can get
> > > > > more here .... then u
> > > > > > can present u views ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > u may have another apect of life,
> but if
> > > some one goes
> > > > > this trauma knows
> > > > > > .....
> > > > > > we pray to god enemy also should
> be spared
> > > of this
> > > > > .....
> > > > > > but if someone need
> experience....can come
> > > to India
> > > > > get married to girl and
> > > > > > when faced 498a atleast will get
> the bitter
> > > truth ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i know i am stranger to you, but i
> only pray
> > > that
> > > > > menace is gone
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if i was not right, why there are
> so many
> > > recent news
> > > > > papers, news channles
> > > > > > show that police officials of
> delhi-India
> > > > > states"we will not allow mis-use
> > > > > > of dowry..."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > why is state and central govt
> saying there
> > > is need to
> > > > > amend law
> > > > > >
> > > > > > at the same time they are also
> saying that
> > > laws should
> > > > > be stringent....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > why they say this.... There is
> ministry of
> > > women and
> > > > > child who are
> > > > > > funded....legal aid is free for
> women they
> > > are funded
> > > > > this year the fund is
> > > > > > approx 33,000 crore....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there is no one for men, MEN pay
> 82% tax of
> > > overall
> > > > > taxation .... but find
> > > > > > no help....no support,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > when families are roped, even
> women are
> > > roped; .... u
> > > > > can do more study if
> > > > > > u may want.....otherwise u can
> also leave
> > > this aspect,
> > > > > becuase u wanted to
> > > > > > rpesent something which u did and
> let by
> > > gones be
> > > > > bygones. ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > or u may really gather more
> info....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if u need any support / study
> material /
> > > info we are
> > > > > here to provide .... i
> > > > > > was just trying to provide what u
> may need
> > > or u may
> > > > > not know ... even though
> > > > > > as a stranger ....i wish u
> succeed; but the
> > > data, the
> > > > > truth and the facts
> > > > > > may go against you and so many
> feelings hurt
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Rajesh
wrote:
> From: Virag
> Subject: Re: Are you really aware?
> To: motwani2002@yahoo.com
> Cc: saveindianfamily@yahoogroups.com, gokul_p_r@yahoo.com
> Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 7:14 PM
> I know Rajesh,
>
> Initially she thought I am alone and just replied
> blatantly. But she was
> lest aware of, kis phatey mein haath daal rahi hain :)
>
> As regards to education is concerned, giving due respect to
> the efforless
> tasks SIFFIANS have taken to create awareness about this
> misuse, in today's
> world if someone talks of 'ignorance about the
> misuse", that person be
> better ridiculed.
>
> And this holds true for 498a victims as well. For Huma, she
> has apparently
> conducted a research on 498a and published a paper, do you
> really think she
> is so naive as to be ignorant of misuse? Not at all.
>
> She is very well aware that the law is being misused (how
> deep the knowledge
> she has is another contentious issue) but if she has the
> knowledge it has
> defnitely come from SIFFIAN sites and still if she
> publishes this bogus
> paper, simply means she cares a damn about men or its
> misuse and probably
> took us lightly thinking we will not object but when she
> got one tight slap
> from me, her ego was rattled as apparent from her mail.
>
> We are not here to educate the feminists, pig headed people
> do not learn.
> They deserve only one thing and that is laat.
>
> But appreciate your efforts in educating her.
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Rajesh Motwani
>
wrote:
>
> >
> > Virag,
> >
> > I know We are just educating her !.... is only
> intention.
> >
> > so chill...and reply what u think fit for education
> >
> > this is right mode of education what do u think?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rajesh M
> >
> > --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Virag
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Virag
> > > Subject: Re: Are you really aware?
> > > To: motwani2002@yahoo.com
> > > Cc: ghosh@mail.sdsu.edu,
> claire.renzetti@notes.udayton.edu,
> > saveindianfamily@yahoogroups.com, gokul_p_r@yahoo.com,
> > "MyNationFoundation"
>
,
> > "Dowry_Law_Misuse"
>
> > > Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 5:19 PM
> > > Agree, but from no standpoint of sensical
> analysis, does
> > > respecting women
> > > amount to insult of men.
> > >
> > > When the misuse of IPC 498a has devastated so
> many families
> > > and every year
> > > 56, 000 married men are committing suicide to
> avoid it,
> > > terming it as a soft
> > > law is direct insult to those men who have
> suffered for no
> > > fault of theirs
> > > except getting married to a bad wife.
> > >
> > > Respect should not come out of gender, it should
> come out
> > > on its own. One
> > > should command and not demand respect.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Rajesh Motwani
> > >
wrote:
> > >
> > > > I truly understand your feelings
> Virag...bro, i am
> > > seriously at my core of
> > > > heart respect wome, as i have sister, my
> mother is a
> > > women too ....
> > > >
> > > > but never knew the other aspect of life ...
> > > >
> > > > And also i didnt knew as Huma and other are
> thinking,
> > > I have felt the pain,
> > > > no one will understand, if i do not try to
> tell them,
> > > they will also be in
> > > > the state that i was in ...
> > > >
> > > > Hence i think Huma and others are not
> adamant, they
> > > are professors and
> > > > carry more social responsibility, hence i
> thought i
> > > should tell them there
> > > > is another aspect which is dark, and
> dangerous....
> > > >
> > > > hence i thought if i can help her study to
> have
> > > practical and real, it is
> > > > not imperative if a person is stranger he
> cannot add
> > > to her studes, i want
> > > > her to rpesent the current situation,
> attimes we live
> > > in 1942....as i was
> > > > till i got the real aspect, for me it is
> clear, but
> > > since does not know this
> > > > pit, its became imperative for me to have
> this pie to
> > > her....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > its altogether a different aspect if she has
> another
> > > propaganda or
> > > > otherwise and she cannot stand the
> truth.....but its
> > > atleast important that
> > > > she will know and if her brother or someone
> whom she
> > > has affection for will
> > > > make that person aware and cautious .... if
> that
> > > happens that will be my
> > > > greet and wish fullfilled from my heart. as
> i will not
> > > like even my enemy to
> > > > get into this...she is stranger to me.....
> > > >
> > > > but its my cautious thinking that i want her
> to
> > > know....if she takes into
> > > > consideration good, otherwise who i am for
> her....NO
> > > ONE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Virag
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Virag
> > > > > Subject: Re: Are you really aware?
> > > > > To: motwani2002@yahoo.com
> > > > > Cc: ghosh@mail.sdsu.edu,
> > > claire.renzetti@notes.udayton.edu,
> > > > saveindianfamily@yahoogroups.com,
> gokul_p_r@yahoo.com,
> > > > "MyNationFoundation"
> > >
,
> > > > "Dowry_Law_Misuse"
> > >
> > > > > Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 4:43 PM
> > > > > Well Rajesh,
> > > > >
> > > > > Although extensively explained by you,
> but her
> > > first reply
> > > > > to me itself
> > > > > shows how closed minded she is. When
> one can
> > > consider an
> > > > > email of
> > > > > constructive criticism as harassment,
> you can see
> > > the
> > > > > mental level of that
> > > > > person.
> > > > >
> > > > > And moreover, typing 498A in google
> gives you so
> > > many links
> > > > > of misuse. You
> > > > > do not even need to append IPC to it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Did she ever do it? No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has she actually studied the law before
> making a
> > > > > horrendously untruthful
> > > > > statement, that IPC 498A is a soft law?
> No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does she even know how many cases of
> false 498A,
> > > based on
> > > > > completely
> > > > > imaginary and cock and bull stories are
> filed
> > > just to end
> > > > > Marriages and
> > > > > encash them as well and these are the
> outblown
> > > statistics
> > > > > used radical
> > > > > feminist agencies like NCW and WCD
> ministry to
> > > promote and
> > > > > justify such
> > > > > laws? No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does she know, in 98 % of cases the
> girls who are
> > > highly
> > > > > educated, and
> > > > > capable of living a lavish lifestyle on
> their
> > > own, first
> > > > > file a 498a case
> > > > > and then maintenance on the basis of
> that
> > > harassment? No.
> > > > >
> > > > > What does she know of the intricacies
> of this
> > > nexus between
> > > > > bad wives,
> > > > > lawyers, police, judges and women NGOs
> to loot
> > > and
> > > > > terrorize innocent
> > > > > husbands and their families under the
> barb of
> > > 498A, to make
> > > > > a statement that
> > > > > 498A is a soft law and demands stricter
> > > implementation and
> > > > > at the same
> > > > > denouncing Indian men and insulting
> them in
> > > public?
> > > > > Nothing, she knows
> > > > > nothing and claims to be a professor.
> > > > >
> > > > > And on top of that, she says,
> "just because
> > > my email
> > > > > id is public, does not
> > > > > mean any tom dick or Harry can harass
> me by
> > > sending
> > > > > emails"?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is height of typical feministic
> behavior,
> > > the moment
> > > > > you try to get
> > > > > into reason with them they start crying
> > > harassment.
> > > > >
> > > > > And she calls my sending an email to
> her as a
> > > typical
> > > > > "Patriarchial behavior
> > > > > :)"
> > > > >
> > > > > When people are sitting at a position
> that
> > > matters, they
> > > > > ought to have this
> > > > > basic common sense that their words too
> matter
> > > and they
> > > > > should not befool
> > > > > the general diaspora with their own
> whims and
> > > fancies and
> > > > > actions gratifying
> > > > > personal ego and in tune with personal
> vendetta.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Rajesh
> Motwani
> > > > >
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Huma, and others,
> > > > > > Its good that you are making a
> history by
> > > publishing
> > > > > you study, let me give
> > > > > > few statistics
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some Interesting Stats On Arrests
> Of Women
> > > > > > In 1930, the British govt arrested
> 17,000
> > > women for
> > > > > their involvement in
> > > > > > the Dandi Yatra (Salt March).
> During 1937 to
> > > 1947 (10
> > > > > Years), they arrested
> > > > > > 5,000 women involved in the
> freedom
> > > struggle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From 2004 to 2006, the govt of
> India
> > > arrested 90,000
> > > > > women of all ages
> > > > > > under 498A. On the average, 27,000
> women per
> > > year are
> > > > > being arrested under
> > > > > > this flawed law. These are stats
> from the
> > > NCRB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neither these stats are self made
> nor
> > > infliction of
> > > > > thought.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a brief; Even i believed women are
> > > sufferers, when i
> > > > > came to understand
> > > > > > this disgrace, i realized the
> difference
> > > between milk
> > > > > and milk-with-water;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Today women in India on 498a have
> forwarded
> > > the
> > > > > attribution, and imputation
> > > > > > have followed
> > > > > >
> > > > > > U may not be knowing, a career
> oriented
> > > women marries
> > > > > to a engineer because
> > > > > > of simplicity in nature, and same
> simplicity
> > > is not
> > > > > enjoyed by women, and
> > > > > > then due reasons files 498a on
> family and
> > > relatives
> > > > > who never saw her, and
> > > > > > case is made and court takes
> > > cognizance...then women
> > > > > starts staying
> > > > > > with guardians when husband dont
> succumb
> > > files
> > > > > Maintenance case that she is
> > > > > > living on the mery of
> guardians...(a career
> > > oriented
> > > > > women, who got married
> > > > > > saying she has this qualification,
> that
> > > qualification,
> > > > > is in a lead position
> > > > > > and has helped so many to start
> their
> > > career's etc
> > > > > etc....file ne more case
> > > > > > which could be around 1800 Miles
> from home
> > > and the
> > > > > husband gets in to this
> > > > > > menace again...,and has to prove
> that she
> > > has
> > > > > employment etc etc...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wifes have filed cases on pregnant
> women who
> > > never
> > > > > stayed with husband or
> > > > > > came to meet
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wifes have filed cases on a kid of
> 4 years,
> > > stating he
> > > > > was party to
> > > > > > harrasment/....4 years kid ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wife files cases on married ,
> unmarried
> > > sisters of
> > > > > husband .... people
> > > > > > living distant, there are cases
> where more
> > > than 17
> > > > > people are roped and case
> > > > > > is proved false
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > u wont believe., there are people
> who are
> > > fighting
> > > > > cases in different
> > > > > > cities, some have 7 cases in 5
> cities, some
> > > have 10
> > > > > cases in 8 cities, some
> > > > > > have 3 cases in 2 cities...) and
> the menace
> > > > > continues....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > one short enphasis, wife filed
> 498a on
> > > entire family,
> > > > > wife after 1 eyar
> > > > > > files maintenance case in distant
> city and
> > > states she
> > > > > has no living and need
> > > > > > survival allowances .. ....and
> when hearing
> > > comes the
> > > > > income tax returns are
> > > > > > disclosed, and it is argued that
> the court
> > > has no
> > > > > jurisdiction(that means
> > > > > > the place is incorrect) as she
> doesnt stay
> > > there which
> > > > > was reality
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then wife display passport and
> visa saying
> > > she stays
> > > > > there and she is
> > > > > > continuing
> > > > > > to stay and court has right to
> decide this
> > > matter in
> > > > > this court ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > when passport is looked upon, it
> is observed
> > > the wife
> > > > > had flied to other
> > > > > > country .... if she has flied for
> tourism
> > > how can she
> > > > > say that she cannot
> > > > > > survive and need survival
> allowance or
> > > maintenance....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there are matters wife lived with
> husband
> > > for 6 weeks
> > > > > and 3 weeks in
> > > > > > honeymoon to an exotic place and
> then due
> > > some
> > > > > discord, after 6 weeks the
> > > > > > husband lives in the ambit of
> 498a,
> > > maintenance case,
> > > > > divorce case and the
> > > > > > husband has to run to save his
> family, his
> > > professon,
> > > > > his life is
> > > > > > destroyed,, his social status ,
> economic
> > > status, every
> > > > > status is hit ....
> > > > > > woh cared for her and didnt even
> ask for
> > > penny, ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there is so much to have a real
> study .... u
> > > can get
> > > > > more here .... then u
> > > > > > can present u views ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > u may have another apect of life,
> but if
> > > some one goes
> > > > > this trauma knows
> > > > > > .....
> > > > > > we pray to god enemy also should
> be spared
> > > of this
> > > > > .....
> > > > > > but if someone need
> experience....can come
> > > to India
> > > > > get married to girl and
> > > > > > when faced 498a atleast will get
> the bitter
> > > truth ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i know i am stranger to you, but i
> only pray
> > > that
> > > > > menace is gone
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if i was not right, why there are
> so many
> > > recent news
> > > > > papers, news channles
> > > > > > show that police officials of
> delhi-India
> > > > > states"we will not allow mis-use
> > > > > > of dowry..."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > why is state and central govt
> saying there
> > > is need to
> > > > > amend law
> > > > > >
> > > > > > at the same time they are also
> saying that
> > > laws should
> > > > > be stringent....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > why they say this.... There is
> ministry of
> > > women and
> > > > > child who are
> > > > > > funded....legal aid is free for
> women they
> > > are funded
> > > > > this year the fund is
> > > > > > approx 33,000 crore....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there is no one for men, MEN pay
> 82% tax of
> > > overall
> > > > > taxation .... but find
> > > > > > no help....no support,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > when families are roped, even
> women are
> > > roped; .... u
> > > > > can do more study if
> > > > > > u may want.....otherwise u can
> also leave
> > > this aspect,
> > > > > becuase u wanted to
> > > > > > rpesent something which u did and
> let by
> > > gones be
> > > > > bygones. ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > or u may really gather more
> info....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if u need any support / study
> material /
> > > info we are
> > > > > here to provide .... i
> > > > > > was just trying to provide what u
> may need
> > > or u may
> > > > > not know ... even though
> > > > > > as a stranger ....i wish u
> succeed; but the
> > > data, the
> > > > > truth and the facts
> > > > > > may go against you and so many
> feelings hurt
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Rajesh
Yes Virag, its already 15
- Love, if we play this even further... it will be Game, Set and Match
soon.... let's show her the way out anyway, if she's such a cry baby, not
wanting any constructive criticism on even her publicly accessible/promoted
'Research-Work"!!!(or should it be pack of lies/delusive
insensibilities/ramblings of an insane professor?!).
If one claims to be a
researcher, he/she should have basic scientific temper, minimal levels of
natural or acquired inquisitiveness, or at least basic courtesy to read and
understand at least the spirit of communication directed to that person. If none
of these exists among the faculties of such person he or she should at least,
the very least, admit her/his inability to comprehend the world as it is and to
selective perception/tunnel vision... for confession is the way to redemption.
If that person still defends his already exposed-hollow arguments, it would just
help in exposing the ignorance of self!.
If being academician means
the power to unilaterally obliterate truth and facts, we don't need such
academicians, as the song goes......" we don't need no education, we
don't no thought control...." (haven't heard this, here it is, hear it for
life!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-9czP52Ayw (remix)
& http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwTpZpwjtIE (the
Pink Flloyd Original) )
PS: This is not
‘BCc’ied to any so-called Professor(Yes...... I sinned here, for sure!). Let
me clarify that I give real respect but only real Professors, not the phony ones
who wriggle out of a healthy debate!.
PPS: Well...
why did the professor choose not to reply to me, was my questions (as
quoted in my message below,using the same font & colour) tougher than what
her syllabus allows!?
regards
Gokul
Re:
Condemning the severely imperialist feminist propaganda in "Chat
Posted by: "Virag" virag.v@gmail.com
talk2virag
Sat Aug 9, 2008 8:56 am (PDT)
Well Hjuma,
Definitely you have right to write what you feel like. But thousands of
families in India are devastated by the misuse of IPC 498A and there lives
are shattered in a moment when a case is filed.
And with radical feminists like you refusing to believe that a woman can be
a marriage breaker too (without any justifiable reason) and keep spreading
the false alarm of "Sole victimization of women", and also expressing
them
in international research papers, it becomes our moral duty to show you the
real face of truth.
If it is that painful to accept that you have seriously flawed in your
paper, then I cannot but condemn your lack of grace. Citing IPC 498A as
'Soft Law' itself shows the lack of research from your angle on the topic or
an attempt to know the reality.
If you cannot tolerate truth then better do not publicize your email id.
Sitting in cozy foreign lands, it is very easy to write such biased and
false papers, come down to India and see the reality for yourself.
I simply sent an email to you on your work and you feel harassed, shows
typical feminist behavior from you again. Instead of going into the
technical / logical details of my email and the intention behind, you have
started whining about harassment and stuff.
Have you ever thought of the harassment that a family undergoes over whom a
false dowry case is lodged?
Gokul had sent an email on statistics of women arrested, and you still
believe that IPC 498A is a soft law? When you have published a research
paper on a topic as sensitive as 498a, be ready to accept criticism, for
there are serious flaws in what you have said.
No wonder radical feminists like you can never think beyond patriarchy and
feminsm.
It is actually a sign of arrogance from your side to refuse to accept the
reality. IPC 498a is misued to the tune of 98 % and you say it is a soft law
and demand stricter implementation, by what yardstick, tell me???
Did you even bother to go through the long email I had composed to you?
On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Huma Ghosh <ghosh@mail.sdsu.
edu> wrote:
>
>
> Virag,
>
> I have a right to write what i want and am sorry it bothers you so much. I
> did an article for an academic journal which sends it out for review to
many
> people before it accepts it.
> Your views are yours and i am not here to contest it.
>
> Just because you have access to e-mail it does not mean that people like
> you can have the right to harass me. This is itself is a sign of your
> arrogance and patriarchal sense of self.
> I am a professor, i do research, i write what i perceive to be the case. If
> it is not to your satisfaction that is not my business---i don't even know
> you are!
>
> But if expressing your views makes you feel better, i hope i have achieved
> something. But in future please do not harass strangers.
> --
> Huma Ahmed-Ghosh, Associate Professor
> Department of Women's Studies
> Center for Islamic and Arabic Studies
> San Diego State University
> 5500 Campanile Drive
> San Diego, CA 92182
> Tel: 619-594-3046
> Fax: 619-594-5218
"Gokul
P.R" <gokul_p_r@yahoo.com> wrote:
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 13:46:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Gokul P.R" <gokul_p_r@yahoo.com>
Subject: 4 times more Women arrested through Women-Protection laws &
people talk about making it worser! Re: Condemning the severely imperialist
feminist propaganda in "Chattels of Society"
To: Virag <virag.v@gmail.com>, Huma Ahmed-Ghosh <ghosh@mail.sdsu.edu>,
"Editor, Violence Against Women" <Claire.Renzetti@notes.udayton.edu.>
CC: SIF <saveindianfamily@yahoogroups.com>,
mynationYG <MyNationFoundation@yahoogroups.com>,
Dowry_Law_Misuse <dlmi@googlegroups.com>
Dear Prof.
Ghosh and others,
See the Statistics
by National Crime Research Bureau(NCRB, India), which is self-explanatory
and shocking too.
NCRB Statistics
Arrested Under IPC | Women | Men | Total | % Women Arrested |
2004 | 27832 | 97825 | 125657 | 22.1 |
2005 | 28745 | 98815 | 127560 | 22.5 |
2006 | 31253 | 105927 | 137180 | 22.8 |
2007 increase | 32815 | 111223 | 144039 | 22.8 |
Totals | 1,20,645 | 4,13,790 | 5,34,436 | 22.6 |
Note: The average percentage of women arrested is 22.6%,
which is 4 times more than the average of women
arrested under all IPC sections(5.8%).
Does this mean that the incidence of women
criminals are 4 times more inside Indian families than in the general
population!?
Or does this anomaly mean, RIGHTLY so,
that women protection laws like IPC 498a is grossly
misused, especially against women themselves. Indeed these laws are
misused by women criminals(who were termed as ‘Legal
Terrorists’ by supreme court(India) itself), the so called Wives,
who are just feigning victims, and are an insult to every woman.
498a& Dowry Act(3,4):more than 22%
arrested are women themselves - see the statistics(as available in the
NCRB sire, see links below) for women affected by IPC 498a and Dowry Death(IPC
304B).
3,90,397 persons(of which 87,830(22.5%) were women themselves!!!) were
arrested under Section 498A in 2004, 2005 & 2006 as per the data published
by the National Crime Research Bureau(NCRB).
So over 87,000 women also have been arrested without evidence or
investigation in case of IPC 498a cases, in three years(2004 to 2006) so its not
just a matter of Harrassed Men, its a clear case of Families in distress due to legal
terrorism.
Another point to note is that in IPC 498a and Dowry Deaths(304B) the
percentage of women arrested are more than 22% of the total number of people
arrested(compared to around 5.8% women in the total arrested in other crimes)
Refer the statistics from NCRB(National Crime Research Bureau)
Year 2004(http://ncrb.nic.in/crime2004/cii-2004/Table%2012.2.pdf)
Year 2005(http://ncrb.nic.in/crime2005/cii-2005/Table%2012.2.pdf)
And
Year 2006(http://ncrb.nic.in/cii2006/cii-2006/Table%2012.2.pdf)
_____________
Note: in the above table the statistics for year 2007 is estimated(at a
conservative 5% growth based on the trend of pervious year growths), since NCRB
data for this year is not yet available.
Tell why 4 times more women are
arrested from inside Indian families under Sections like IPC 498a, why women
arrested in other crimes are 1/4th in percentage among the total number of
people arrested?.
What is your contention?. Whats your
solutions which you must have distilled vide your research?.
Do you wish to restate any part of
your research in the light of the new evidence you have come across, if so which
part and how would you restate?.
regards
Gokul
PS: If anyone wants to see the truth see these video presentations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3koC6v9VHyk and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xKkz17Zhp8
. We rest our case!.
Virag <virag.v@gmail.com>
wrote:
Prof Ghosh,
I would like to raise serious objections to your research paper, titled
"Chattels of Society" in which you have adjudged Section 498A of the
Indian Penal Code as a very light law and
demanded stricter implementation.
As a deemed professor in San Diego State university, there has to be
substantial amount of credibility in the papers that you present, for common
people of average intellect tend to go by your words and research without
going into the intricacies of the statements made keeping in mind your degree
and stature.
You say, Section 498A is a 'soft law'. By which yardstick of legal analysis do
you propose to make such erroneous a statement. For your general knowledge you
would like to read this link, highlighting the marketable features of this
law, deemed as 'Soft' by you.
IPC
498A - The most draconian law
Assuming you increase the hit count of the above link by 1 and devour its
contents, you can easily see how a grave criminal offense of 498A can be
lodged against any man married in India or any NRI married to an Indian girl.
Filing a case is piece of cakewalk, just like ordering a pizza from the
nearest US Pizza outlet with home - delivery.
One unverified complaint and all the accused are thrust behind bars and denied
bail. This fear of arrest and inhuman torture at the hands of criminally de -
sensitized police force, can drive the nuts out of any sane person. People
succumb to fear of false cases and end up loosing all their wealth in settling
this false case in addition to bearing the social stigma, ostracization and
trauma of false allegations.
Many Indian married men succumb to this ongoing Legal Terrorism in the name of
Women Empowerment as reflected in the suicide statistics prepared by National
Crime Records Bureau,
In 2005, 52, 483 and in 2006, 55, 452 married men committed suicide in India
as opposed to 28, 188 and 29, 869 married women for the same years
respectively.
Has this thought ever occurred to you as to why so many men are forced to
commit suicide in your so called, "Patriarchial Society"?
Have you run a simple search on 498A in Google?
Well sitting in California, the mecca of World
Wide Web, you should have done this. But seeing your views, I am not waiting
for your answer. I know you have not. For if you had actually done so, a whole
new reality shift would have occurred to you.
Denouncing Indian men as abusive and representing Indian women as stupid
victims, clearly shows your overtly bent, deeply ingrained and ubiquitously
stereotypically radical feminist mindset.
Aah and before I forget, your so called 'Soft' 498A has jailed 1, 20, 645
innocent women in the last four years, 3 - 4 times the number the British
could achieve in 40 years. Yes the same british people with whom you seem so
overwhelmed that you suggest mimicking their matrimonial policies.
You are aware that Britain figures absymally low in marital happiness and
there are more divorced couples than married couples?
What do I conclude from this, that you want to ruin the Indian Family system?
Or probably you thought that no one is going to raise a finger against any
flimsy stories you write about Indian men and women
gratifying your personal ego and vendetta?
I am quite sure you are not very happy seeing this mail, but neither was I
seeing your remarks on Indian men which were not only false and baseless but
also highly denigrating and demeaning as well in addition to being grossly
humiliatory in nature.
And as I am on an education ride to a professor of San Diego state university,
let me add this miniscule piece of information as well lastly, that in section
498A, 98 % cases are false and this study has been conducted by Center for Social
Research, an India Govt. Enterprise.
And my last note goes to Claire Renzetti, the editor of the journal, Violence
Against Women that the research paper, "Chattels of Society" by Prof
Huma Ahmed Ghosh has resulted in gross misbalance of gender sensitivities and
general view of Domestic Abuse. Hence the same be restored by allowing a
research paper on "Widespread misuse of 498A to harass and abuse the
husband and his parents and siblings".
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